School Rankings

[iamtom]

I'm curious...

Are you a former student of Melbourne High or Mac.Rob? They're two different mindsets from what I know, but they are both similar enough for me to say this: your perception of the average Melbourne High School student is blatantly wrong. Just like you say; "there is a student population that do fit this criteria". This applies to anything: Asian wizards, closeted white children with no social skills, chess masters, scientific geniuses, rich kids, poor kids, what have you.

Just quietly if you got a scholarship to an elite aps school (i.e. mgs, scotch, skc, xavier) and got an offer to melbourne high, where would you go? (considering the fact that with a scholarship you would be paying 2 -3 thousand more per year than mhs)

If I tried to get a scholarship, I would take it. I don't want to owe the money, and it would be great regardless I'm sure. However, I had my sights on MHS.

Yeah, there are students who get involved in mhs events and sports etc but that is a relative minority compared to what you'd find at aforementioned private schools. You'd never find 2000+ kids to watch mathes of footy and rugby at mhs would you?

You would, actually. There's a reason our inter-school cups with our NSW and SA equivalents have lasted what, over 100 years? So that's irrelevant to your point.

If you get into an elite aps school, they can transform an average student into a 99 +. The reputation of mhs/macrob is more or less built on the students itself - they bottom end of their respective cohorts is signinficantly higher than any private school and so they should be as they are SELECTIVE.

 Arguable, definitely. But you could also state the reputation of private schools is built on how much money the students' parents toss at the school. You'll definitely tell me that this isn't the case, but that's definitely the social impression of the "upper" private schools: Haileybury, Xavier, Scotch.

But nevertheless, the advantage further exists with networking opportunities amongst rich kids. Having mates whose parents are ceo's, firm owners etc. allows for an expansion of connections which further provides a leg up on other students.

I don't think you understand that this is also the case at Melbourne High? Having, say, the CEO of Linfox or the CEO of Kogan Technology is pretty useful - I know for a fact that Kogan is keen on MHS Old Boys. And they're just the most notable ones.

You talk about facilities: MHS does have some good facilities, but still doesn't compare to the elite private schools.

Arguable. We have some of the best facilities I can think of. Location, equipment, technology, quality. So what if we don't have a seperate rugby, soccer and football field? Our field is amazing, in plain sight and awesome to pass by on a train when the sun peaks over the Castle.

Private schools do have significant benefits, because an education is not what you learn but what you experience- and it is that experience which you get from a private school, which superceeds mhs, imo.

So basically what your opinion is, is that private schools are better because of the experience (which, as I've said before and you clearly didn't read, MHS is all about the "experience" not the cramming of knowledge down your throat) which you can only get from a private school because you pay for it. Is that right? That's my interpretation.

Okay then. Perfectly valid opinion, don't get me wrong, just seems a bit closeted. I'm not arguing that private schools are better or worse than MHS, keep in mind. It just seems to me that everyone is hating on a fantastic institution because MHS students are passionate about the place. It's an amazing place, and people just keep saying wrong things about it.

[Mech]

Right now, I am so glad I went to neither MHS or an "elite private school". You guys have a bit of a complex about the importance of where you read and chattered. This thread is just cock jousting when you sit here comparing your tweed jackets. These schools are selective and privileged; all of them have their relative strengths and weakness for each individual. Your experiences are not their experiences.You are fortunate students, all of you who got the opportunity most do not have.  Quit these lusty thrusting at one another and denying the fact it is just frottage with the occasional "touche".

I went to a regional school where we were lucky to have air conditioning, and you guys are comparing swimming pools. There were no social clubs, no study dates and traipses to the local lawn bowls or the library in the city. And yet I feel really thankful. I got an education; I did very well with my situation and I achieved to my own standards. All this rodomontade of what each school has is absolutely frivolous.

Be thankful and shut up.

[simpak]

I wish I had gone to a school that couldn't afford a swimming pool because maybe then I wouldn't have had to lie about having my period every week to get out of swimming.  My PE teacher probably thought I was going to die.

[ulbasour]

If I tried to get a scholarship, I would take it. I don't want to owe the money, and it would be great regardless I'm sure. However, I had my sights on MHS

Fair enough, your decision and opinion. We all have our own desires.

You would, actually. There's a reason our inter-school cups with our NSW and SA equivalents have lasted what, over 100 years? So that's irrelevant to your point.

I'm speaking relatively, APS is the oldest and most prestigious competition. And no, i would not see 2000 odd students rocking u to a game of football between mhs and ahs, not now any way.

Arguable, definitely. But you could also state the reputation of private schools is built on how much money the students' parents toss at the school. You'll definitely tell me that this isn't the case, but that's definitely the social impression of the "upper" private schools: Haileybury, Xavier, Scotch.

thats neither here nor there. my point was that the school aids significantly in the development of the student

I don't think you understand that this is also the case at Melbourne High? Having, say, the CEO of Linfox or the CEO of Kogan Technology is pretty useful - I know for a fact that Kogan is keen on MHS Old Boys. And they're just the most notable ones.

again you missed my point, i said mates parents and families, not old boys.

Arguable. We have some of the best facilities I can think of. Location, equipment, technology, quality. So what if we don't have a seperate rugby, soccer and football field? Our field is amazing, in plain sight and awesome to pass by on a train when the sun peaks over the Castle.

MHS probably have the best facilities for a state school. But again, comparatively to private schools, mhs is below them.

So basically what your opinion is, is that private schools are better because of the experience (which, as I've said before and you clearly didn't read, MHS is all about the "experience" not the cramming of knowledge down your throat) which you can only get from a private school because you pay for it. Is that right? That's my interpretation.

It depends what you want to experience, MHS offers an experence that doesn't fit my taste, and is lacking of a fullness, but thats due to my personal desires. MHS however is foremost an academic school which places a firm focus on academics - yes their are sports and clubs, but there is a clear imbalance as to what is focussed upon.
Again this is my opinion, shaped by my own personal desires.

It's an amazing place, and people just keep saying wrong things about it.

its amazing becuse its what you want, so its all subjective in the end.

Anyway forget this argument, if you are of a certain mould you would prefer mhs to scotch, grammar, skc, cgs etc. and vice-versa. It just seems to me that mhs cater for amore specific type of student which limits the fullness of schooling life available (and mates at mhs can concur with me about that) - again, my opinion derived from personal desires.

[TheMirrorMan]

Right now, I am so glad I went to neither MHS or an "elite private school". You guys have a bit of a complex about the importance of where you read and chattered. This thread is just cock jousting when you sit here comparing your tweed jackets. These schools are selective and privileged; all of them have their relative strengths and weakness for each individual. Your experiences are not their experiences.You are fortunate students, all of you who got the opportunity most do not have.  Quit these lusty thrusting at one another and denying the fact it is just frottage with the occasional "touche".

I went to a regional school where we were lucky to have air conditioning, and you guys are comparing swimming pools. There were no social clubs, no study dates and traipses to the local lawn bowls or the library in the city. And yet I feel really thankful. I got an education; I did very well with my situation and I achieved to my own standards. All this rodomontade of what each school has is absolutely frivolous.

Be thankful and shut up.

I'd have to say that you're misrepresenting the main points of this discussion. I think everyone here can agree that the best private schools have better facilities than MHS, this discussion isn't about arguing over the quality of the facilities at MHS compared to Scotch or MGS. The real issues being debated are whether or not having quality facilities is important to a good education and if so, how important it is along with differing views of the culture at each school and how it contributes to a well-rounded education.

I'm glad that you've seen success at your school but to criticise a debate on the false pretence that we're mostly comparing swimming pools and school ovals is to give a superficial and simplistic view of the debate whilst ignoring what is really being argued.  I think this discussion is relevant rather than being frivolous as we're discussing what we feel makes a well rounded and complete education, we're not cock jousting and comparing tweed jackets.

[pi]

In addition to TheMirrorMan, no-one here would deny that attending an elite private school or a selective school hasn't been a privilege and everyone here is also thankful for that opportunity. And to think that we don't is really a misrepresentstion of not only this debate, but also of us.

[nisha]

The real issues being debated are whether or not having quality facilities is important to a good education and if so, how important it is along with differing views of the culture at each school and how it contributes to a well-rounded education.

Not sure if "quality facilities" is important to a good education. A good education, relies essentially on a student's attitude towards their study. It relies on their motivation, determination and self-belief.
In the end, having great facilities, like swimming pools and ovals is not necessarily going to benefit an individual at VCE. Neither does new, colourful buildings, or beautiful grass or new projectors for classrooms. We have to remember that each individual is responsible for their own success, and facilities provided by a school can enhance their learning(so some extent) but it is in no means, essential.

[JellyDonut]

The real issues being debated are whether or not having quality facilities is important to a good education and if so, how important it is along with differing views of the culture at each school and how it contributes to a well-rounded education.

No, they aren't. If it were, the thread would have ended a while ago and Mech wouldn't have pointed it out. It's a fucking pissing contest no matter how your phrase it

If you get into an elite aps school, they can transform an average student into a 99 +.

Do you honestly believe this?

[appianway]

Can people just let it rest and agree that APS schools AND selective schools are great institutions that offer a lot of opportunities to their students?

[nisha]

If you get into an elite aps school, they can transform an average student into a 99 +.

 If this actually happened, I wonder why Elite private schools are not the top school in Victoria, I wonder why MHS AND MACROB are?

^^. I think my point is made. i SHALL rest and agree that all schools offer great opportunities:)

[Russ]

Not sure if "quality facilities" is important to a good education.

They're incredibly important and you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise. It's part of the reason why inner metropolitan melbourne dominates the ATAR rankings

[Reckoner]

If you get into an elite aps school, they can transform an average student into a 99 +.

 If this actually happened, I wonder why Elite private schools are not the top school in Victoria, I wonder why MHS AND MACROB are?

MHS and MACROB are selective, whereas at the elite private schools you don't have to be academically strong to attend. 

[vivid]

I had a friend who got into mac rob and decided not to go. She goes to a private school (no scholarship) and is now one of the captains there for 2012.

On the other hand, I’ve got another friend who got into mac rob and decided to go because the atmosphere suited her perfectly and she loves it there.

My cousin went to a state school, got 97+ and enjoyed his time there too.

It’s definitely disappointing if your school doesn’t do or rank as well as you’d hoped, but it all comes down to whether or not you’re happy at your school. Too many assumptions and generalisations are being made about each, but each provide a different atmosphere and it all comes down to the individual and which place suits them better.  The school you go to won’t make the atar for you, it comes down to your own perseverance and whether or not the school you’re in helps you achieve it. I’m all for friendly competition between schools, but honestly, what good is it doing trying to argue which is better? All have their advantages and disadvantages depending on the individual and what they like better in a school.

I know this is off topic, but...having been to one elite private school...a good proportion of students were from families who sacrificed a LOT to pay for their children's education, and quite a few on particular bursaries and scholarships without which they wouldn't have been able to afford it.

I completely agree with this. I think there’s a big generalisation on the wealth of the students who attend private schools. There’s always going to be students who are a lot wealthier then the average house hold, but that being said, there are plenty of students whose parents work hours on end just to send their kids there. 

[nisha]

Not sure if "quality facilities" is important to a good education.

They're incredibly important and you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise. It's part of the reason why inner metropolitan melbourne dominates the ATAR rankings

I'm deluding myself? Tell me, oh great sir, what EXACT FACILITIES are essential for a good education?

[Mech]

I'd have to say that you're misrepresenting the main points of this discussion. I think everyone here can agree that the best private schools have better facilities than MHS, this discussion isn't about arguing over the quality of the facilities at MHS compared to Scotch or MGS. The real issues being debated are whether or not having quality facilities is important to a good education and if so, how important it is along with differing views of the culture at each school and how it contributes to a well-rounded education.

I'm glad that you've seen success at your school but to criticise a debate on the false pretence that we're mostly comparing swimming pools and school ovals is to give a superficial and simplistic view of the debate whilst ignoring what is really being argued.  I think this discussion is relevant rather than being frivolous as we're discussing what we feel makes a well rounded and complete education, we're not cock jousting and comparing tweed jackets.

The real issue here is each of you wants to tote your anecdotes and how successful the school has been in providing with this 'holistic' education, and yet you do not realize that it is based on the individual. I would not prosper in a school that had an ethos of being sports orientated, as I am not a sports person. I would not prosper from having social clubs, ovals and what have you associated to such things; I would barely use them and I would benefit better from a large library and fast internet connection. The converse may be true for others.

This discussion is cock jousting. Like it or not.

In addition to TheMirrorMan, no-one here would deny that attending an elite private school or a selective school hasn't been a privilege and everyone here is also thankful for that opportunity. And to think that we don't is really a misrepresentstion of not only this debate, but also of us.

Most do not sound thankful at all. You sound like you want to take the opportunity to boast and claim you got the better overall education and go back and forth with the merits of each school. If you want to make this personal, so be it. I never targeted one person, I never called one person out on their comments - I made a general statement on the pages of this topic. If you want to feel like I took a swing at you, so be it.

Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience