The reality of medicine

[kenhung123]

@ shinny, dentists make more than doctors, really? What's a dentist's salary like then? Also, you also start earning as soon as you graduate from med school.

Wow...you have no clue. In a nice way.

If I end up doing med eventually I might like to become an ENT or OMF surgeon.

OMF? o_o Maxfax involves getting a Dent degree on top of your Medical one. Then you have to study to specialise as a maxfax afterwards. Be prepared for a very long journey.

My family friend is 30 and just in the training stage of becoming a MaxFax, like, not even a fully qualified one.
Also, a bit of advice, don't start to churn out what specialities you'd like to do and all in front of everyone, particularly the neurosurgeon high-flying type of speciality. In the first week or so of dent/med its kind of cute in a  first year to gush about it, then it becomes slightly...exasperating. Everyone was gushing about becoming a max fax in dent and honestly... I don't take many of them seriously. Not saying you personally, but some peolpe who talk about becoming Ents, Neuros, maxfaxes.... they can come across as ignorant or arrogant.

Yeah I agree, its like when you get in med/dent they would obviously aim for the best, but its not a matter of what you want to choose sometimes..

[Russ]

Sure dentists make more when they first come out, but you're trying to tell me that on average, a dentist say 15 years into his career is going to make more than a doctor? Let's say both in private practice. Interventional radiology? Cardiology?

"on average" and then "cardiology"...

Dentists will definitely make a hell of a lot more than a doctor for most of those first 15 years. Specialist earnings will eventually overtake them, depending on whether the specialist moves into private practice or not, but it's a really big gap until then. And dentists who charge a lot are probably going to be always ahead of specialists, because of the specifics of their job

[dc302]

Russ do you have any figures? I'm curious now as to how much they earn. Also, I didn't mean cardiology as 'on average', but when you include cardiology and radiology private practices, they definitely lift the average up.

[Russ]

Not on hand. I have seen pay sheets and the ascending hierarchy before but I was never interested enough to save it because..well..that's 10 years away lol

I'll see if I can track it down.

[iffets12345]

Russ do you have any figures? I'm curious now as to how much they earn. Also, I didn't mean cardiology as 'on average', but when you include cardiology and radiology private practices, they definitely lift the average up.

I think what everyoneis saying is that on average, dentists earn more than doctors, but obviously if you are a neurosurgeon with private practice then you would exceed the salary of a dentist, if you had enough patients.
Dentists have one of the highest undergraduate first year out salaries (whatever you call it, there's a more eloquent way of saying it) and then it kind of plateaus, but read below for how a dentist can out-earn some established doctors. Unfortunately, I don't think this will last for long and I think the career of dentistry won't be as financially rewarding in the future.

You have to consider that currently, medical practice has many ties with government policies like Medicare.. which affects how much you earn. Right now, for a health service, dentistry is pretty private and many dentists have control over how much they want to charge you. And yes, a dentist can out earn even a specialist like a cardiologist if they are an unethical dentist that sees patients in and out in ten minutes or insists on filling teeth which could be "re-strengthened" naturally. My friend reports that his father's earning potential is half a mil each year.

[paulsterio]

first year out salaries (whatever you call it, there's a more eloquent way of saying it)

I think it's "Starting Salary"

My friend's orthodontist earns like 500,000 each year as well, apparently, basically what dentists do is overcharge the health insurance companies. So like with my dentist, if I say I have private health insurance, they will probably charge me more than if someone came in and said they were paying cash, in regards to the cash, they probably record it as lower as a form of tax avoidance as well.

There's more loopholes for dentists I guess, but either way, the pay is very very high, probably less than a consultant, but equal to a GP (at least)

[dc302]

Is that so? Seems like a much easier life style and more money? Maybe I should have done dentistry! haha jks, I doubt I would ever get much job satisfaction anyway. But then maybe when you're 40-50, job satisfaction doesn't matter as much...

[shinny]

But then maybe when you're 40-50, job satisfaction doesn't matter as much...

I thought that's when it matters more? Money shouldn't phase you too much at those ages when you've already got some piled up from working earlier. Most of the older doctors are only working for job satisfaction. They could really retire any time since money's obviously not an issue, but there's a bit of an unwritten obligation as a doctor to just keep going until you can't given how long it takes for you to get trained.

[dc302]

That is true, but people often say that by that stage, even if your job was really fun/pleasing in the beginning, the stuff gets old and with any job, it can get boring eventually. That's another reason (although a bad one imo) that my parents tell me to do high paying jobs as in the end I'll get bored of anything anyway... hope that's not the case though.

[shinny]

That is true, but people often say that by that stage, even if your job was really fun/pleasing in the beginning, the stuff gets old and with any job, it can get boring eventually. That's another reason (although a bad one imo) that my parents tell me to do high paying jobs as in the end I'll get bored of anything anyway... hope that's not the case though.

I don't think that's quite true with Medicine. As with any job, large parts of it will be boring, but I think there'll always be cases to make it worthwhile to continue. Otherwise I can't imagine many doctors having much incentive to work past the age of 50 or so, but clearly many do.

[iffets12345]

I agree wholeheartedly with shinny. One way of making it all worthwhile is volunteering. Hopefully I'll be able to volunteer, or work public. That's when you find the people who really appreciate what you do and it gives a whole different meaning to your job. I've been seeing some people at Peter MacCallum cancer centre, and its far more interesting than drill fill.
Oh, and Paul's got it right on the wrong doings of dentists.

[dc302]

I guess those who want flashy cars and big mansions may make up a few of those. Personally I would just be happy with a job I enjoy and a good lifestyle to spend time with the family and such.

[iffets12345]

..Med might not offer you that lifestlye, just saying, but shinny can offer you more insight on that. It's probably a good idea ur doing Science so u can like mull over your career and mature a bit.

[Graphite]

Russ do you have any figures? I'm curious now as to how much they earn. Also, I didn't mean cardiology as 'on average', but when you include cardiology and radiology private practices, they definitely lift the average up.

I think what everyoneis saying is that on average, dentists earn more than doctors, but obviously if you are a neurosurgeon with private practice then you would exceed the salary of a dentist, if you had enough patients.
Dentists have one of the highest undergraduate first year out salaries (whatever you call it, there's a more eloquent way of saying it) and then it kind of plateaus, but read below for how a dentist can out-earn some established doctors. Unfortunately, I don't think this will last for long and I think the career of dentistry won't be as financially rewarding in the future.

You have to consider that currently, medical practice has many ties with government policies like Medicare.. which affects how much you earn. Right now, for a health service, dentistry is pretty private and many dentists have control over how much they want to charge you. And yes, a dentist can out earn even a specialist like a cardiologist if they are an unethical dentist that sees patients in and out in ten minutes or insists on filling teeth which could be "re-strengthened" naturally. My friend reports that his father's earning potential is half a mil each year.

I reckon that is spot on. They earn the most out of school, and do not require as much extensive training. But I'm pretty sure surgeons earn a lot more as some surgeries (especially cosmetic which often isn't covered by medicare) cost so much more than dental treatments. Orthodontists may sound like they earn a lot but if you consider the number of consultations required, they don't actually earn that much more compared to a general dentist.

[totaled]

what is the lifestyle, and pay of a gp like?