The Culture within AN

[thushan]

Taboo topic, suggested by water.

WARNING: This is meant to be a constructive discussion, not an argument. If we find issues and conflicting opinions, then deal with them constructively. You could consider this as an exercise in debating without heated argument.

And if there is anyone's opinion you think is really bad or whatever, argue it CONSTRUCTIVELY. Part of the reason we can't flesh out discussion on these topics is because some of us are too scared to voice their opinion because of a fear of a backlash. This fear stifles discussion. So, do NOT judge anyone based on their opinions, please . Argue for or against the POINT, not the PERSON.

So, let me open, what are your opinions of the AN culture?

[pi]

A question: do you feel "scared" to post against the view of a prominent moderator or admin?

eg.
- Contradicting mods/admin in religious debate threads?
- Contradicting or questioning Thushan's working or answer in a chem thread?
- Saying you enjoy VCE Physics anywhere in the forum? (not that anyone would...) 
- Fear of getting mass downvoted for stating your views?

On another note, do you downvote or upvote people based on who they are?

[MonsieurHulot]

A question: do you feel "scared" to post against the view of a prominent moderator or admin?

I feel as if I've been brainwashed into hating Physics D:

[pi]

A question: do you feel "scared" to post against the view of a prominent moderator or admin?

I feel as if I've been brainwashed into hating Physics D:

This is a good thing

[thushan]

A question: do you feel "scared" to post against the view of a prominent moderator or admin?

eg.
- Contradicting mods/admin in religious debate threads?
- Contradicting or questioning Thushan's working or answer in a chem thread?
- Saying you enjoy VCE Physics anywhere in the forum? (not that anyone would...) 
- Fear of getting mass downvoted for stating your views?

On another note, do you downvote or upvote people based on who they are?

Very good point here. However, I do like to make myself clear, I'm only too happy to be contradicted in a Chem thread. I make mistakes too. And it's good when people contradict me, because they're challenging my view, and they're critical of what they read. THAT's what I want in an AN thread. And if their contradiction is wrong, they don't have to worry about being wrong or anything, because that's something new they've learnt, and I was a high school student getting things wrong as well. I still get things wrong.

[paulsterio]

Like Thushan has said, this is constructive criticism, so outside of this thread, we don't want anyone treating anybody else differently or bullying anyone as the result of what is said here.

The first issue I would like to raise is the issue of "Respect" - what is the respect system used for? In my understanding, it is used to rate how "helpful" someone is on the forums, i.e. someone with a high respect is expected to be very helpful around the forums and that is generally true - i.e. LovesPhysics and Thushan and many others have high respect counts because they are genuinely helpful.

However, one of the issues I've noticed about the "Respect" system is that respect is very often given for the wrong reasons - most notably for "being funny" or "owning somebody". I could find examples, but I won't because I don't like singling people out, but it leads me to believe that there are some people on AN who "respect-monger" - i.e. just posting funny stuff or ownage stuff in order to GET RESPECT, things which add no real meaning or purpose into the thread. It makes them look like a hero and everyone +1's them, neglecting those who are truly helpful.

I do commend members such as pi, El2012, Nisha, Laseredd and many others who give out +1's well - i.e. they give out respect to the posts which really deserve them - the posts which are genuinely helpful to other people.

The other issue is the "herd" issue, on AN, I too often see posts with a MASSIVE number of +1's or posts with a MASSIVE number of -1's leading me to think that the herd effect is at play, i.e. +1 or -1 -ing a post just because others are. Of course this is not fair and it distorts the true quality of the post.

If I were to have it my way, I would think that a different respect system would be better - where the person who asks the question rates the answer or something like that - or at least a system which doesn't reward respect-mongering.

I like those who are funny, I really do, but when those who are funny get more respect than those who are helpful, that's worrying.

Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience

[pi]

Very good point here. However, I do like to make myself clear, I'm only too happy to be contradicted in a Chem thread. I make mistakes too. And it's good when people contradict me, because they're challenging my view, and they're critical of what they read. THAT's what I want in an AN thread. And if their contradiction is wrong, they don't have to worry about being wrong or anything, because that's something new they've learnt, and I was a high school student getting things wrong as well. I still get things wrong.

Just using an example of a mod who knows a lot about a specific subject area (one of many in your case), nothing personal haha

[ktrah]

I think that for the most part AN has a great culture with most people willing to help others and a general sense of community, especially compared to some other forums where everyone is constant attacking others. However, my answer to LovesPhysics question is definitely yes. It seems like often in a debate whenever someone's view contradicts that of a mod/admin, they'll be immediately and viciously attacked by other certain mods/admins. They say they want a fair discussion but after a point of view has been voiced and attacked, other people won't want to back it up in case they're attacked too. I think this is something that definitely has the effect of driving people away from AN, or as far as I've noticed anyway.

[MonsieurHulot]

I think the culture around here is almost always supportive, friendly and respectful. However, on occasion, especially in the 'debate' threads, people insult each other for having different opinions, as if not thinking the same way makes you deserve it somehow. That is really the only thing that stands out against an otherwise great community.

[thushan]

Good points here Paul. And cheers for the compliment.

Respect-mongering. Interesting point here. I can see this happening. I wouldn't be surprised if I was guilty of it myself a couple of times. But the effect of respect mongering is this - how seriously do people take respect, and what do people see when they see 'respect?' Does it mean much to them, does it mean to them that "this person is helpful" or "this person is popular?" If it's the former, then Paul is absolutely valid here. If it's the latter, then perhaps we could discuss this further.

Im not so sure about the herd issue here though. Could it be BECAUSE other people are negging the post, or is it because everyone simultaneously thinks its bad (the post)?

[thushan]

Very good point here. However, I do like to make myself clear, I'm only too happy to be contradicted in a Chem thread. I make mistakes too. And it's good when people contradict me, because they're challenging my view, and they're critical of what they read. THAT's what I want in an AN thread. And if their contradiction is wrong, they don't have to worry about being wrong or anything, because that's something new they've learnt, and I was a high school student getting things wrong as well. I still get things wrong.

Just using an example of a mod who knows a lot about a specific subject area (one of many in your case), nothing personal haha

I know I just wanted to make that point because that's the culture of AN that I personally want to see.

[Felicity Wishes]

A question: do you feel "scared" to post against the view of a prominent moderator or admin?

Somewhat. Not really 'scared' but more worried that I'm going to get attacked and ganged up upon by a bunch of well known people and/or a group of people who are close friends. I feel like if I got into a debate I would never win due to my low status in comparison to others. In my opinion..

[nisha]

The other issue is the "herd" issue, on AN, I too often see posts with a MASSIVE number of +1's or posts with a MASSIVE number of -1's leading me to think that the herd effect is at play, i.e. +1 or -1 -ing a post just because others are. Of course this is not fair and it distorts the true quality of the post.

I tend to almost always disagree what you say on this forum, but to that, I must agree. There have been many instances where I have hesitated from putting forward my view just because I fear that there is someone out there, that may ridicule my opinion, and argue not with the facts, but point out their own judgemental point of view of me.
The pressure of conformity sadly, is everywhere.

[thushan]

I think that for the most part AN has a great culture with most people willing to help others and a general sense of community, especially compared to some other forums where everyone is constant attacking others. However, my answer to LovesPhysics question is definitely yes. It seems like often in a debate whenever someone's view contradicts that of a mod/admin, they'll be immediately and viciously attacked by other certain mods/admins. They say they want a fair discussion but after a point of view has been voiced and attacked, other people won't want to back it up in case they're attacked too. I think this is something that definitely has the effect of driving people away from AN, or as far as I've noticed anyway.

I agree with you on this point.

I think the culture around here is almost always supportive, friendly and respectful. However, on occasion, especially in the 'debate' threads, people insult each other for having different opinions, as if not thinking the same way makes you deserve it somehow. That is really the only thing that stands out against an otherwise great community.

And I agree with you here. This was part of the reason why we are holding this thread, to flesh things out like this.

Do you see how far constructive talk has already taken us?

[thushan]

A question: do you feel "scared" to post against the view of a prominent moderator or admin?

Somewhat. Not really 'scared' but more worried that I'm going to get attacked and ganged up upon by a bunch of well known people and/or a group of people who are close friends. I feel like if I got into a debate I would never win due to my low status in comparison to others. In my opinion..

And we really have a problem here when people are forced to feel this way. This is exactly what stifles discussion. We want to change this culture within the rants and debate thread, particularly in religious topics. Topics on religion have great potential for interesting discussion, but unfortunately lead to personal attacks, which should not be on. Myself, I had to try and calm people down in these topics. People have been driven away from AN because they think that their views are not respected. We don't want this.