Criticisms of the VCE

[jejak]

Most people in the state are allowed to exhibit weakness in a subject. For instance, if you are not doing so well in Chemistry, you are allowed to have that omitted from your top 4 calculation. My logic is the same. If people display weakness in English, how come they do not get the same consideration?

Firstly, I agree 100% with Gloamglozer; but your argument, phrased this way, intrigued me - so I guess I'll have to eat my words and reply! Briefly, briefly.

The only logical reason I can think of is that VCAA (and by extension, uni administration) don't allow students to "display weakness in English" because they believe, for whatever reason, that English is somehow a general predictor of success in tertiary education, and as such, that should be universally applied in such a way so as to _significantly affect_ a student's chances for admission to _any_ course (ie top 4 requirement).

I'm not saying that English is indeed such a general predictor of success in uni. Anecdotal evidence from my circle of friends doesn't really suggest to me that this is true. But just from the perspective of educational philosophy, I find it interesting to consider why VCAA might have thought this way.

General disclaimer: not the brightest bulb in the box - I may have missed something in my reasoning, etc etc.

VCE is another planet all together; you've made it through and you're on planet Earth now.  Things are a lot more logical and make more sense [emphasis added]

LOL, I was so sleep-deprived and caffeine-addled throughout VCE - poor time management - that the planet analogy hit very, very close to home!
I agree with ILMM though that those are very much "words of wisdom" that spring from a well-rounded view of the role, and the privilege, of education. VN itself is kind of a rarefied environment in terms of academic success, and yet I think we have retained a healthy perspective, despite some individual disappointments.

[Ilovemathsmeth]

I too am confused with why they don't give Eng students a chance to show weakness.

I had very bad time management as well. Unlike you, I took tea regularly instead of coffee. I'd sometimes feel so tired after a day of school that I'd nearly fall asleep over my homework (usually winter). So sleep deprived too. Would sleep at 12.30 on an average night and wake up at 7.00. Over time, your body just can't cope anymore.

[TrueLight]

i would like to put a quote in this topic... im not even sure it belongs here but i find it interesting...lol

"knowledge is easy to gain, wisdom is much harder. much harm has come from those who don't know the difference."

[Ilovemathsmeth]

But can wisdom be gained without knowledge?

[Gloamglozer]

Thanks Gloamglozer for those words of wisdom. I do agree with you, I am so happy to have an opportunity at future study. I had taken it for granted until the day of offers when I suddenly wondered if I'd done the online work okay. Thank god I had.

Hahaha about the planet analogy

Indeed.  You have been granted the opportunity, why waste it?  It's time to look forward, cherish the wonderful moments we shared with friends back in high school (all the laughs and sometimes practical jokes) and ultimately move forward and accept the fact that we made it out alive and well.  Who knows, if you're really performing exceptionally in uni, the Faculty of Economics and Commerce might offer you a merit scholarship.   I'm sure UoM wouldn't want to lose a student just because that student was offered a scholarship at Cambridge, right?  

Just remember:  If you have a destination, be the postage stamp on the envelope.  Why?  Because the postage stamp always stays with the envelope until it reaches its destination.  Never give up hope.

[stonecold]

I too am confused with why they don't give Eng students a chance to show weakness.

I had very bad time management as well. Unlike you, I took tea regularly instead of coffee. I'd sometimes feel so tired after a day of school that I'd nearly fall asleep over my homework (usually winter). So sleep deprived too. Would sleep at 12.30 on an average night and wake up at 7.00. Over time, your body just can't cope anymore.

I have to agree with you on that.  So much time is wasted at school.  Currently, all of the studies I am taking require 17 contact hours per week at TAFE.  Why this nearly doubles at high school baffles me to be honest.  What you do in school is in my opinion, largely a waste of time.  Learning should be primarily an individual thing, and I tend to learn the most on my own at home.

I always felt tired after school.  When you consider travel time for most students, they wake up for school at around 7am and don't get home until 4.30-5.00.  That is a pretty long day, especially when you are expected to maintain approx 4 hours a day of study outside of school as well.

[Mao]

(Image removed from quote.)

I can't take responsibility of my weakness. It's the system's fault for not excusing my weakness.

Who said life was fair?

[Ilovemathsmeth]

Thanks Gloamglozer for those words of wisdom. I do agree with you, I am so happy to have an opportunity at future study. I had taken it for granted until the day of offers when I suddenly wondered if I'd done the online work okay. Thank god I had.

Hahaha about the planet analogy

Indeed.  You have been granted the opportunity, why waste it?  It's time to look forward, cherish the wonderful moments we shared with friends back in high school (all the laughs and sometimes practical jokes) and ultimately move forward and accept the fact that we made it out alive and well.  Who knows, if you're really performing exceptionally in uni, the Faculty of Economics and Commerce might offer you a merit scholarship.  I'm sure UoM wouldn't want to lose a student just because that student was offered a scholarship at Cambridge, right? 

Just remember:  If you have a destination, be the postage stamp on the envelope.  Why?  Because the postage stamp always stays with the envelope until it reaches its destination.  Never give up hope.

Very inspirational words Gloamglozer. Thank you. All in all, I did enjoy high school. What a pity it was to leave

[Mao]

I too am confused with why they don't give Eng students a chance to show weakness.

I had very bad time management as well. Unlike you, I took tea regularly instead of coffee. I'd sometimes feel so tired after a day of school that I'd nearly fall asleep over my homework (usually winter). So sleep deprived too. Would sleep at 12.30 on an average night and wake up at 7.00. Over time, your body just can't cope anymore.

I have to agree with you on that.  So much time is wasted at school.  Currently, all of the studies I am taking require 17 contact hours per week at TAFE.  Why this nearly doubles at high school baffles me to be honest.  What you do in school is in my opinion, largely a waste of time.  Learning should be primarily an individual thing, and I tend to learn the most on my own at home.

I always felt tired after school.  When you consider travel time for most students, they wake up for school at around 7am and don't get home until 4.30-5.00.  That is a pretty long day, especially when you are expected to maintain approx 4 hours a day of study outside of school as well.

Uh-huh, so we have it tough?

Look at the tertiary entry exams in China, very rarely do students leave home after 6am, and very rarely do students leave school before 9pm, and very rarely do they relax when they get home.
And very rarely do they go and complain about how hard life is.

And I'm sure there are plenty of other countries in the same boat.

And here we are, complaining about 9-3 school days and a technicality in the system that is seemingly 'unfair'. Fair dinkum.

[TrueTears]

I too am confused with why they don't give Eng students a chance to show weakness.

I had very bad time management as well. Unlike you, I took tea regularly instead of coffee. I'd sometimes feel so tired after a day of school that I'd nearly fall asleep over my homework (usually winter). So sleep deprived too. Would sleep at 12.30 on an average night and wake up at 7.00. Over time, your body just can't cope anymore.

I have to agree with you on that.  So much time is wasted at school.  Currently, all of the studies I am taking require 17 contact hours per week at TAFE.  Why this nearly doubles at high school baffles me to be honest.  What you do in school is in my opinion, largely a waste of time.  Learning should be primarily an individual thing, and I tend to learn the most on my own at home.

I always felt tired after school.  When you consider travel time for most students, they wake up for school at around 7am and don't get home until 4.30-5.00.  That is a pretty long day, especially when you are expected to maintain approx 4 hours a day of study outside of school as well.

Uh-huh, so we have it tough?

Look at the tertiary entry exams in China, very rarely do students leave home after 6am, and very rarely do students leave school before 9pm, and very rarely do they relax when they get home.
And very rarely do they go and complain about how hard life is.

And I'm sure there are plenty of other countries in the same boat.

And here we are, complaining about 9-3 school days and a technicality in the system that is seemingly 'unfair'. Fair dinkum.

Yeah, China kids have it way tougher than us...

[Ilovemathsmeth]

I too am confused with why they don't give Eng students a chance to show weakness.

I had very bad time management as well. Unlike you, I took tea regularly instead of coffee. I'd sometimes feel so tired after a day of school that I'd nearly fall asleep over my homework (usually winter). So sleep deprived too. Would sleep at 12.30 on an average night and wake up at 7.00. Over time, your body just can't cope anymore.

I have to agree with you on that.  So much time is wasted at school.  Currently, all of the studies I am taking require 17 contact hours per week at TAFE.  Why this nearly doubles at high school baffles me to be honest.  What you do in school is in my opinion, largely a waste of time.  Learning should be primarily an individual thing, and I tend to learn the most on my own at home.

I always felt tired after school.  When you consider travel time for most students, they wake up for school at around 7am and don't get home until 4.30-5.00.  That is a pretty long day, especially when you are expected to maintain approx 4 hours a day of study outside of school as well.

I agree. Waking up at 7 am, then school plus late arrival back home and then additional study adds up to a very long day. I also agree that school time is useless. As you say, 17 hours is evidently all that is needed to do your subjects. I never found school helpful around exam time. They gave you time to study, but that was pointless since we'd just talk to each other and end up wasting most of that time. That's why stay home around exam time.

You do not need a good teacher to do well in VCE. My Methods teacher was absolutely shit, you have no idea - seriously she banned me from asking questions because she thought I was showing her up in the class (before someone tells me how arrogant I sound, as they have been doing so all day, this was actually not my assumption, it was that of my entire class and friends). Chemistry teacher was lousy and was only good for answering additional questions in private time. Further Maths - likewise. English - totally crap. Never bothered giving back essays on time, even lost one of my handwritten essays. Psych - teacher tried, but never managed to keep his class in control. Accounting was my one superb teacher for year 12. His help was priceless to me. He was such a dedicated teacher, always willing to help and supportive

[crappy]

I too am confused with why they don't give Eng students a chance to show weakness.

I had very bad time management as well. Unlike you, I took tea regularly instead of coffee. I'd sometimes feel so tired after a day of school that I'd nearly fall asleep over my homework (usually winter). So sleep deprived too. Would sleep at 12.30 on an average night and wake up at 7.00. Over time, your body just can't cope anymore.

I have to agree with you on that.  So much time is wasted at school.  Currently, all of the studies I am taking require 17 contact hours per week at TAFE.  Why this nearly doubles at high school baffles me to be honest.  What you do in school is in my opinion, largely a waste of time.  Learning should be primarily an individual thing, and I tend to learn the most on my own at home.

I always felt tired after school.  When you consider travel time for most students, they wake up for school at around 7am and don't get home until 4.30-5.00.  That is a pretty long day, especially when you are expected to maintain approx 4 hours a day of study outside of school as well.

Uh-huh, so we have it tough?

Look at the tertiary entry exams in China, very rarely do students leave home after 6am, and very rarely do students leave school before 9pm, and very rarely do they relax when they get home.
And very rarely do they go and complain about how hard life is.

And I'm sure there are plenty of other countries in the same boat.

And here we are, complaining about 9-3 school days and a technicality in the system that is seemingly 'unfair'. Fair dinkum.

lol so true, its funny when people complain how grueling school is in aus...9-3... what a joke
Where I come from, which uses pretty much the same system Mao is describing, a "9-3" system would be a dream... almost a fantasy

/end bullshit rant in bullshit thread

[stonecold]

I too am confused with why they don't give Eng students a chance to show weakness.

I had very bad time management as well. Unlike you, I took tea regularly instead of coffee. I'd sometimes feel so tired after a day of school that I'd nearly fall asleep over my homework (usually winter). So sleep deprived too. Would sleep at 12.30 on an average night and wake up at 7.00. Over time, your body just can't cope anymore.

I have to agree with you on that.  So much time is wasted at school.  Currently, all of the studies I am taking require 17 contact hours per week at TAFE.  Why this nearly doubles at high school baffles me to be honest.  What you do in school is in my opinion, largely a waste of time.  Learning should be primarily an individual thing, and I tend to learn the most on my own at home.

I always felt tired after school.  When you consider travel time for most students, they wake up for school at around 7am and don't get home until 4.30-5.00.  That is a pretty long day, especially when you are expected to maintain approx 4 hours a day of study outside of school as well.

Uh-huh, so we have it tough?

Look at the tertiary entry exams in China, very rarely do students leave home after 6am, and very rarely do students leave school before 9pm, and very rarely do they relax when they get home.
And very rarely do they go and complain about how hard life is.

And I'm sure there are plenty of other countries in the same boat.

And here we are, complaining about 9-3 school days and a technicality in the system that is seemingly 'unfair'. Fair dinkum.

I know we have it easy compared to other countries.  What I am saying is that we spend too much time in school for the limited content which we actually learn.  If we are required to spend 7 hours each day in school.  Most of the time should be spent learning and studying, and not partaking in sporting carnivals, assemblies, masses, retreats, school productions etc.  If you want extra curricular activities, then they should be optional and take place outside of school.

I seriously believe that students would achieve better scores if the school day was shortened.  Remember that it is the quality of study that counts, not so much the quantity.  Students often get awfully distracted in school.

[TrueLight]

But can wisdom be gained without knowledge?

ah! ur making me think when my brain has turned to mush... i think its the hot stuffy weather....

hmm no i believe u need knowledge first... and wisdom comes with time and experience...

wait let me get wikipedias help...

"Wisdom is a deep understanding of people, things, events or situations, empowering the ability to choose or act to consistently produce the optimum results with a minimum of time and energy. Wisdom is the ability to optimally (effectively and efficiently) apply perceptions and knowledge and so produce the desired results. Wisdom is comprehension of what is true or right coupled with optimum judgment as to action.

A standard philosophical definition says that wisdom consists of making the best use of available knowledge. As with any decision, a wise decision may be made with incomplete information."

[Ilovemathsmeth]

Ahh right haha thanks