Is VCE fair?

[Glockmeister]

Improvement can only occur if we make the attempt. And that step starts with us, as victims of this major flaw.

zomgSEAN I'd like to see you justify this unfair VCE education system and the additionally immense cost you're proposing for ongoing external assessment to the millions of young people who don't even have access to education.

In 6 months time you won't even give a shit about the VCE.

I think there are much more important 'major flaws' in education.

Chem-nerd, you seem quite aggravated. I think this is due to a misinterpretation.

Never did I say (without later correcting myself, in regards to my careless use of the word 'revolution') or imply that fixing our VCE system was an international, national or even state priority. It is merely something i feel should be addressed in future. By no means is it more important than achieving universal education. This is not what i contend.

I only wish to highlight that having content attitudes towards something flawed that could be potentially fixed, is not something which promotes evolution of society.

Examinations are a necessary evil. If Albert Einstein fails the VCAA physics exam, it doesn't mean he's an idiot. VCE is just a gauge to help you get into uni. If you screw up your finals because you had a breakdown *bad luck* - it just means you can't cope under pressure or it wasn't your day - it doesn't mean you don't understand the content, or in Einstein's case that you won't still be able to win the Nobel prize or develop the theory of relativity.

The cost and effort you are proposing to reform something which is already functional cannot be justified against the relative (pun intended) unimportance of VCE.

Chavi, I feel that your comments are very naive. The only opportunity for reasonable tertiary study leading on to professional qualifications, is by performing in VCE. There is so much importance placed upon the scores you receive. It is the key point of selection into University. Performance on exams is necessary for near-future success.

Tbh, that's a load of crap...

There are many Mature-aged students, many of whom have not completed VCE at all, having dropped out earlier in life.

As an aside, there is a test conducted by ACER as an alternative entry for VCE for mature-aged students.

[boysenberry]

As an aside, there is a test conducted by ACER as an alternative entry for VCE for mature-aged students.

I've never heard of this test. Out of curiosity, what's it called?

[IntoTheNewWorld]

As an aside, there is a test conducted by ACER as an alternative entry for VCE for mature-aged students.

I've never heard of this test. Out of curiosity, what's it called?

I believe it's the STAT test.

There are many pathways to get to what you want zomgSEAN...

VCE is just the easiest way I guess. Getting into highly ranked universities in Australia through VCE is pretty damn easy compared to other countries, from what I hear. I mean, Monash Science is in the 70s.

[zomgSEAN]

I may be biased from my own experience, but the stress you experience in exams isn't really severe enough to cripple you if you know the whole course. Besides, overcoming stress is merely a matter of focus and concentration on the task at hand, and I think it's fair that exams test your ability to concentrate.

Question: What 3/4 did you do in Y11?

I'm unsure of what you mean by 'cripple', but i would say that the stress is enough to unfairly compromise one's ability to express their knowledge of course content. I'm all for testing focus and concentration, as long as it takes the place of a secondary role; assessing student's knowledge taking the primary.
I did not do a 3/4 in Grade 11.

Tbh, that's a load of crap...

There are many Mature-aged students, many of whom have not completed VCE at all, having dropped out earlier in life.

As an aside, there is a test conducted by ACER as an alternative entry for VCE for mature-aged students.

I did not overlook this factor, hence my noting of "near-future success". Perhaps i should make it more clear; immediate-future success.

There are many pathways to get to what you want zomgSEAN...

Yes, but only one pathway(i believe) to achieving such in the shortest time possible - VCE. Many students can be deterred or discouraged from tertiary study due to not achieving the ENTER to get into their preferred course, meaning they have to engage in other bridging pathways costing them extra money and time from their lives. More exams would reduce this from occurring to many excellent students that merely tripped up on an exam or two due to immense stress.

You guys are a bunch of whining girls.

NOTHING IN THE WORLD IS FAIR. Even being born a female, you have less than a 50/50 chance.

If you really think VCE is that unfair, you would actually do something more about it than just getting your opinion heard in this forum. If you are not willing to change anything, don't complain.

You mad?

[m@tty]

Everyone who is sitting the exams is faced with exactly the same situation; hence it is fair. How people react to the stress or the pressure to perform is where the discrepancy arises. Though, if one is thoroughly prepared and feels confident with the material, then they are likely to be less nervous. Alternatively, if one accepts that however they go on the exam that if they try their best the result doesn't matter in the end, the pressure is relieved.

It is people who believe that VCE is their only option, that if they do not meet their pre-determined standards then they have 'failed' - they are the ones who mount stress upon themselves. There are other options. It is a narrow-mindedness of these people that has created a stigma whereby exams are widely perceived as - and through this perception become - ineffably stressful experiences. Ironically, through their fear mongering they actually decrease their likelihood of success.

If year 12 students do well they can possibly achieve their goals faster, but in stressing they only do themselves a disservice. If people would realise that the progression of their life does not depend on these exams, then they would transform this notoriously stressful time of their life into simply another year of learning.

[iffets12345]

It is people who believe that VCE is their only option, that if they do not meet their pre-determined standards then they have 'failed' - they are the ones who mount stress upon themselves. There are other options. It is a narrow-mindedness of these people that has created a stigma whereby exams are widely perceived as - and through this perception become - ineffably stressful experiences. Ironically, through their fear mongering they actually decrease their likelihood of success.

oh god that is me.

[absurdlittlebird]

Whether it's fair is pretty irrelevant isn't it?
The point is we have to do it, no matter how shit the system is.

[zomgSEAN]

Everyone who is sitting the exams is faced with exactly the same situation; hence it is fair.

Yes, it creates fairness in terms of equality. However, there are many different aspects of assessment which must be considered when deciding whether overall fairness is achieved.
On one hand, the fact that everyone does the same exams creates an element of fairness. However, on the other hand, the nature and conditions of the exams, as i have frequently noted, is unfair. The former fairness is undoubtedly easier to achieve.

absurdlittlebird, your signature is inspirational, even if satirical.

[kyzoo]

It is people who believe that VCE is their only option, that if they do not meet their pre-determined standards then they have 'failed' - they are the ones who mount stress upon themselves. There are other options. It is a narrow-mindedness of these people that has created a stigma whereby exams are widely perceived as - and through this perception become - ineffably stressful experiences. Ironically, through their fear mongering they actually decrease their likelihood of success.

oh god that is me.

That is me as well, but I don't feel that much stress =/

[Russ]

However, on the other hand, the nature and conditions of the exams, as i have frequently noted, is unfair.

Yes, and just about everyone else disagrees with you about the extent of this "unfairness". If you're experiencing debilitating stress in the exam period, that's a problem unrelated to the frequency of exams.

[zomgSEAN]

If you're experiencing debilitating stress in the exam period, that's a problem unrelated to the frequency of exams.

Yes indeed.
It isn't the frequency of exams; it's the percentage proportion they contribute to my study score.

Indirectly, perhaps frequency of exams is the issue, assuming that more exams = more distribution of percentage contributions.

May I add that the members of VCENotes are merely a narrow representation of the entire state; the few participating in this thread even moreso.

If only we could see the results of a state-wide poll on the proposition of more exams and increased distribution of contribution.

[shinny]

If you're experiencing debilitating stress in the exam period, that's a problem unrelated to the frequency of exams.

Yes indeed.
It isn't the frequency of exams; it's the percentage proportion they contribute to my study score.

Indirectly, perhaps frequency of exams is the issue, assuming that more exams = more distribution of percentage contributions.

May I add that the members of VCENotes are merely a narrow representation of the entire state; the few participating in this thread even moreso.

If only we could see the results of a state-wide poll on the proposition of more exams and increased distribution of contribution.

My guess is that the majority of the state's attitudes to more exams would simply be 'CBF' for lack of a better way to put it.

[absurdlittlebird]

absurdlittlebird, your signature is inspirational, even if satirical.

lol. It would be rather amazing... but we can only dream (:

[Russ]

It isn't the frequency of exams; it's the percentage proportion they contribute to my study score.

More assessment with less contribution doesn't decrease stress, it just lets you rationalise away bad marks.

[bomb]

Face it, life isn't fair. So exams are stressful, and you only get one chance to perform - this happens in the real world too (in the workplace, etc.).

I personally think exams are a great way to test us, it shows what we are like under pressure and really seperates the better students from the rest. Inevitably, some students are left behind by stressing out in the exam but if you think about it, only 4 of your subjects makes a huge difference to your ATAR, it is unlikely that you're going to screw up 3+ of them (if you end up doing 6-7). Plus you have the GAT if for some reason you can't sit the exam.

I do feel however that English in top 4 is BS, simply because some people enjoy it and are bound to do better...

If all maths/science students have to do one of the three English's, then all humanities/arts students should have to do one of the three maths