Why do people favour elite schools?

[s...]

Yes, agreed with werdna,

BUT: private primary schools offer a heap of co-curricular activities. I know that kids that have started in pre-prep at my school (private, girls only, kindergarten to yr 12) are some of the most talented people, if not academic: music, sport(esp. cross country), leadership skills, good at all their subjects etc.

s.

[MJRomeo81]

Elite schools doctor a certain type of work ethic. That work ethic is required to excel in not only year 12, but also in life.

And public schools don't? When you look at the amount of resources / motivation available at an elite school in comparison to a public school, you have to work a lot harder in the public school.

I know so many people who received private tutoring and had an abundance of resources spoon-fed to them. But when they were forced to motivate themselves intrinsically in University, they struggled because the teacher wasn't there to hold their hand. Obviously this isn't the case for everyone but when it comes to work ethic a public school can be an invaluable experience.

[Mao]

Elite schools doctor a certain type of work ethic. That work ethic is required to excel in not only year 12, but also in life.

And public schools don't? When you look at the amount of resources / motivation available at an elite school in comparison to a public school, you have to work a lot harder in the public school.

I know so many people who received private tutoring and had an abundance of resources spoon-fed to them. But when they were forced to motivate themselves intrinsically in University, they struggled because the teacher wasn't there to hold their hand. Obviously this isn't the case for everyone but when it comes to work ethic a public school can be an invaluable experience.

It is true that you can come out of a public school with a good work ethic, but it is rare. Statistically speaking your chances at success is lower if you go to a public school. The average private school student has a much better work ethic than the average public school student.

There are many factors affecting how successful you are in VCE. Family influences are very important. Your peers can have an even bigger influence. Private schools don't necessarily provide a higher quality of teaching, but they do facilitate a social environment that's better for academic success.

With that said, I don't regret my public school education one bit. But I think it's interesting that most of my friends come from private schools (many of whom are successful at what they have chosen). Not being deliberately elitist, but private schools on average do produce more successful people.

[taiga]

Would you argue that it is the actual school which is the factor influencing work ethic, or is it partially the socio-economic status of your parents?

[thushan]

Would you argue that it is the actual school which is the factor influencing work ethic, or is it partially the socio-economic status of your parents?

The former I would say. Having studied at a public school at years 7 and 8 (which actually isn't THAT bad, if you navigate your way through it right) and then at a private school from year 9 onwards, you see a massive contrast. My parents are lowish middle class I think (dad's a professional, yet is working at a job in which he is overqualified and mum's doing a 'working class' job which again she is overqualified for) yet they did have a strong emphasis on study. So the only variable here was my school type and peers.

I do not for a second regret moving to my new school. The learning environment was seriously much more supportive and rewarding of hard work. Yes, at a private school you may get spoonfed quite a lot more, but that was not my experience over there; quite often I had to self-teach a couple of my subjects (being biology and english langauge to an extent, and chem I also taught myself slowly over a couple of years). The main difference was my peers' reaction to someone who puts in the work, and the social environment. At my old school, I struggled to find my footing in terms of my attitude and behaviour, as well as my social skills to an extent. When I moved to my new school, the extremely supportive and non-judgemental atmosphere (might be specific to my new school, I'm not sure) really helped me blossom as a person and as a student. The pastoral care was excellent. My peers also worked extremely hard, especially in year 12 (more than me I think actually) and that environment goaded me into putting in work myself.

I was speaking to someone who went to my old school and did well, although he should have done better. He said it was the 'slack culture' of the school that killed his study.

Just my thoughts.

@MJRomeo81: So true. Friend was telling me that in her med school the rural students are generally doing extremely well and thriving because of their independent study skills. However, I think that you can also develop a really good work ethic in a private school because of the supportive environment.

[Callum]

Motivation is hard enough to find in year 12 as it is to keep going and achieving high results. If you go to an average public school you are surrounded by people who don't really care how they are going. This causes an affect to everyone, as it isn't really a competetive environment anymore. In my Accounting class if I got over 80% (the SACs were extrememly easy) I would be ranked first. This had a huge negative impact on me as when I could of been working harder, I didn't as I believed I was getting high marks without putting much effort in. It wasn't untill I found ATARnotes I figured out that my results weren't actually that good and how hard a bad cohort could affect me. ATARnotes gave me the motivation that I deeply needed with all my SACs increasing by atleast a whole grade, but by then it was almost to late as half the year had already gone I'd performed badly in English SACs and Mid-years. Only 2 people in my school achieved a score over 90 with both of them being 95+ and we only had about 13, 40+ SS (which was shared between 6 people). If I had gone to a private school I would of realised straight away what was required to get a good ATAR and recognised earlier that my cohort at an average public school isn't a good reputation of the acedemic levels of the state. All in all I believe that sometimes it's hard to see what is required in VCE and private schools give a greater insight into this than public schools.

[Mao]

Would you argue that it is the actual school which is the factor influencing work ethic, or is it partially the socio-economic status of your parents?

Both. And placebo. And pride.

The school may or may not be actually better. But paying for it makes you believe it is better. Having slightly shinier equipment helps.

Going to one of these schools also instills some sense of pride (conscious or subconscious). It may come from the feeling that your family is 'well-off' enough to send you there, or just an ill-advised notion of 'private is better than public'. Regardless, some pride tend to have positive effects, and also promotes more competition between peers. But too much pride will create arrogant pricks, ah well.

[paulsterio]

Guys, the ending factor is essentially this, is it really worth paying around $60,000 or so over the years to get an ATAR which is a little bit higher than what you would have gotten in a public school?

I think that's essentially the crux of the issue, you're not going to skyrocket by going to a private school, you'll probably increase from a 99.50 to a 99.95 or something of that magnitude, but then, is it really worth it?

[paulsterio]

Would you argue that it is the actual school which is the factor influencing work ethic, or is it partially the socio-economic status of your parents?

maybe not so much the socio-economic status, but rather how much value they place on education

parents of low socio-economic statuses (i don't understand why it isn't stati, i think it's cause status isn't from latin?) can still have a greater value of education than ones of high socio-economic statuses

The main difference was my peers' reaction to someone who puts in the work, and the social environment. At my old school, I struggled to find my footing in terms of my attitude and behaviour, as well as my social skills to an extent. When I moved to my new school, the extremely supportive and non-judgemental atmosphere (might be specific to my new school, I'm not sure) really helped me blossom as a person and as a student. The pastoral care was excellent. My peers also worked extremely hard, especially in year 12 (more than me I think actually) and that environment goaded me into putting in work myself.

that's actually a point i've never thought of before, the support and the attitude of your peers, but hmmm, that makes me think about the general attitude at my school. I must admit, I do enjoy being in a school where I'm "above average" - not the smartest kid around but ahead of many other students, because that's a nice place to be, you can help out other people, and feel some pride to where you are, yet there's still those ahead of you so you will keep on trying. I'm not sure of whether an environment where I'm pushed more into the "average" category would help me...hmm, it's just something interesting to bite on

[Russ]

Guys, the ending factor is essentially this, is it really worth paying around $60,000 or so over the years to get an ATAR which is a little bit higher than what you would have gotten in a public school?

I think that's essentially the crux of the issue, you're not going to skyrocket by going to a private school, you'll probably increase from a 99.50 to a 99.95 or something of that magnitude, but then, is it really worth it?

Right, because everyone who gets sent to a private school is going to get an ATAR of 99.5 to start with...

Take a kid who would normally get an ATAR of say, 65, put him in a private school and he's going to get more than 65.45

[EvangelionZeta]

Guys, the ending factor is essentially this, is it really worth paying around $60,000 or so over the years to get an ATAR which is a little bit higher than what you would have gotten in a public school?

I think that's essentially the crux of the issue, you're not going to skyrocket by going to a private school, you'll probably increase from a 99.50 to a 99.95 or something of that magnitude, but then, is it really worth it?

No it's not.  Schooling isn't just about ATAR.  Academically, my school only made a difference for me in that it inspired me towards taking up philosophy, and to take literature seriously.  For me, high school was much more about the opportunities that I was presented with, in drama and in music in particular.

[Sellingman]

Guys, the ending factor is essentially this, is it really worth paying around $60,000 or so over the years to get an ATAR which is a little bit higher than what you would have gotten in a public school?

I think that's essentially the crux of the issue, you're not going to skyrocket by going to a private school, you'll probably increase from a 99.50 to a 99.95 or something of that magnitude, but then, is it really worth it?

Right, because everyone who gets sent to a private school is going to get an ATAR of 99.5 to start with...

Take a kid who would normally get an ATAR of say, 65, put him in a private school and he's going to get more than 65.45

Russ, Paulsterio is suggesting that a kid who tries to get his best in a public school and tries to get his best in a private school will not differ too greatly.

Not about a kid who is underachieving in his public school.


@EZ, my brother goes to a private school in Melbourne and I went to public ( He is on a sporting scholarship for Track and Field after representing Australia at World Youth Games). I can vouch, you guys do receive opportunities that us public schoolers never got.

[ninwa]

Guys, the ending factor is essentially this, is it really worth paying around $60,000 or so over the years to get an ATAR which is a little bit higher than what you would have gotten in a public school?

I think that's essentially the crux of the issue, you're not going to skyrocket by going to a private school, you'll probably increase from a 99.50 to a 99.95 or something of that magnitude, but then, is it really worth it?

If you have the money to spare, or you get a scholarship, or your parents are willing to make sacrifices to afford it, then why not? The difference between my ATAR and a 99.95 would have made the difference between me getting into med and "settling" for law, and I am by no means a unique snowflake in this regard.

[nacho]

imo if ur a good student with a good work ethic any score is possible regardless of the school.
sure the atmosphere is different, but its just the students around you studying hard that makes you want to study hard as well.

One of the teachers at my school (really bad school) went on to teach at glen waverley this year.
In terms of his teaching, he was pretty average, and in some manners detrimental
and yet at glen waverley apparently he was hailed as a physics god who is really tank (not to say the guy was bad, but the extent he spoonfed his students was just lol. Also he is really tank, and he was the witer of maths quest). What i'm trying to say is, it's not necessarily good schools have good teachers, many mhs people have told me this too.

If you really need a kick in the arse to study, then there is fault in you, not in your school. Encourage your own friends to study and build the same atmosphere instead of moaning about how if you went to a better school you could have gotten a better ATAR.
You're just looking for excuses..

[Water]

How does one become good student with a good work ethic? Are you saying that it comes from birth? Surely schools play a significant role in carving the attributes of healthy study.