Thoughts on eating meat and dairy?

[geminii]

Okay so you're saying that wars are totally fine because they have a reasoning, and the MILLIONS of Syrian refugees suffering and starving to death is all good, because at least there was a reason, right? Haha, you will only know what war feels like when you experience it, you hear that pin drop? In Iraq, that could've been the pin of a greenade, quick, run.

Honestly can not believe that you think war and killing humans is fine because there's a reason behind it. I don't even want to continue this argument anymore. Go live as a refugee and then tell me what the objevtive behind your misery is.

Woaaah okay cosine, did you not read my comment? Read it again. Here is what I wrote if you can't find it, because I knew you would write this:

I'm not saying that wars aren't bad.

So, YES, wars are horrible. Of course they are! That's not even what I posted???. Tell me, at what point did I ever say "war and killing humans is fine"?

[keltingmeith]

I have now started to issue warnings for some of the things being said in this topic - please stray from controversial analogies, or saying things that might make others upset. At the same time, if someone says something upsetting, don't have a knee-jerk reaction, just take a breather. Thank you.

[pi]

And if eating meat causes more pain and suffering in the world, then why do it?

Growing crops won't cause pain and suffering to animals? Destroying their natural habitats to grow things is perfectly a-ok? Everything we do for ourselves will have a negative impact on some group of animals, EVERYTHING. We may not be cutting their heads off, but we're still hurting them and they're still suffering, it is inevitable, it's the cycle of life.

Just by living we're doing harm to some group ALL THE TIME. Look at the harm you may be doing right now, using energy from what is likely a coal energy source to fuel your computer as you're online here or the car you take to school each morning: you're raising global temperatures, killing off our arctic wildlife, killing our aquatic life. The clothes you've got in your room: potentially endorsing products of child labour, endorsing underpayment to people in the bottom percentage of society. The land you're living on: taken from the land of Indigenous people, and from animals before them. I could go on, but the message here is everything we do and have done will have caused suffering.

The only way to fully ethically live is to not live at all.

Whether it is a human mother, a cow mother or a pig mother, we all suffer the same when our babies are taken from us. You think they don't care? You think they want to die? You think they're not crying out for their lives? If so, you're not listening hard enough.

You don't think that happens when a pack of lions targets the baby gazelle to be feasted on for the night? Suffering happens ALL the time. I'm 'listening' hard, and it's spelling out to me: 't-h-i-s--i-s--l-i-f-e'. It just happens, and as above, it is going to happen with everything we do.

Also, about you saying we should end wars and suffering first - at least wars have an objective. People are fighting for something. What are we killing animals for? A temporary moment of taste bud pleasure? I'm not saying that wars aren't bad. But killing animals for a reason like that is just crazy.

This is another poor comparison Why does the reason for eating meat have to be something divine and profound (not to say starting a war is either of those...)? We like the taste, that's a perfectly valid reason. Selfish reason? Sure, but valid nonetheless.

If we as humans only did what we "needed" and not what we "wanted", the world would be a much simpler place. But the fact is, we've evolved to have wants on top of our needs. Sure, if we take everything that sloth said as the gospel truth in that we don't need meat in 2016... well we don't need billions of other things, many of which are doing far more harm to the world than eating meat. I see no passionate campaigns there from anyone here.

We're selfish, life is selfish, evolution is selfish.

I agree with slothpomba. Also, how can we expect to treat fellow humans well when we can't be expected to treat fellow animals well? Mahatma Gandhi said "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated." And this is certainly true. All we need is compassion for all beings. Seriously, is a little compassion for the beings we are brutally murdering a little too much to ask?

I agree, treat our animals to the best we can. Hence, I think we're now both in agreement that humane "non-brutal" killing of animals is completely fine then?

I have now started to issue warnings for some of the things being said in this topic - please stray from controversial analogies, or saying things that might make others upset. At the same time, if someone says something upsetting, don't have a knee-jerk reaction, just take a breather. Thank you.

Run!

[cosine]

at least wars have an objective. People are fighting for something.

People are fighting for something, and people are dying for nothing.

It's not called a knee-jerk reaction. It's called experience, something that you are fortunate enough to not endure.

[heart]

not vegetarian/vegan myself but have watched the documentary cowspiracy recently and it really did inform me about the great negative impact the average meat eating diet can have.

[geminii]

All I'm saying is, if you had the chance to make a difference and save thousands of lives simply by not eating meat and dairy, why wouldn't you?

[pi]

All I'm saying is, if you had the chance to make a difference and save thousands of lives simply by not eating meat and dairy, why wouldn't you?

Because we are omnivores that like the taste and the nutritional benefits (such as Vitamin B12, which pretty much only comes from animal meat or products, although many foods are fortified with it now... thanks to vegos...) of those products. Just like people like leather from the hide of cows, or people like taking medicines to stay alive that were tested on animals. I do not understand why you refuse to accept these as valid reasons, humans do things "because we want to" all the time. As long as we're buying from and promoting humane practices, I'm fine with it on every level.

[cosine]

All I'm saying is, if you had the chance to make a difference and save thousands of lives simply by protesting against wars, why wouldn't you?

[anna.xo]

I haven't read this discussion apart from the first couple pages, so apologies if I'm talking about something completely irrelevant.

First off, I'm a vegetarian and have been my entire life. To be completely clear; not due to a moral, ethical or religious base.

One thing that you have to realize is that the debate for vegetarianism/veganism vs carnivorism is quite unbalanced mostly due to the fact that studies and research undertaken on this topic has shown that those practicing vegetarianism are generally 'healthier'; more health conscious, less likely to be smoking or excessively drinking, more fitness inclined and so on.

In today's society, as most of you here would have noticed, there is a massive health craze. A lot of people are turning to vegetarianism and veganism in the mistaken belief that it is a less fat based diet meaning that it is 'healthier'. Simply put, this is not true. Yes, meat does contain fat and other unhealthy elements, however it also contains a lot of protein and other important minerals that are necessary for good health. Some of these vitamins and minerals such as cobalamin aren't found in other foods unless fortified and even then, absorption is not as effective. This is why supplements are essential on a vegetarian diet and since many people on these diets don't take the necessary supplements, they aren't actually helping their bodies or being 'healthier'.

As far as how animals are killed, I don't think that's particularly important. Yes, animals are being killed for our  consumption and I can see how people believe this to be wrong. I however, believe that the act starts to become 'wrong' when you kill an animal, create the meat and then waste so much of the animal. If you're going to throw away half of the meat of the animal you just killed, that is a complete joke and the act becomes completely inhumane.

I don't disagree with the notion of eating meat because 'it tastes good'. Ultimately, it's a free country and anyone can do anything they like with their own life. As long as one isn't pushing their own beliefs onto others, I don't really see anything wrong with justifying a decision that way; ultimately humans are selfish creatures.

[Seņor]

All I'm saying is, if you had the chance to make a difference and save thousands of lives simply by not eating meat and dairy, why wouldn't you?

You talk as if these cows are humans. Let me put it in perspective; If i called someone an animal they would be offended.

[Jesshope257]

Hey guys!
I'm a vegetarian no dairy myself but I was wondering about everyone's opinion on "culling" and the different 'cullings".
I don't really know what to think.
I'm very against shark culling.
However things like cane toad culling is where I get iffy.
I wish we could just catch all the cane toads and take them back to their old habitat.
This isn't a viable option, though and as such I'm undecided on the topic.

What's everyone elses thoughts on culling?

[geminii]

You talk as if these cows are humans. Let me put it in perspective; If i called someone an animal they would be offended.

I treat animals as humans. We are all living beings. I see no difference between me, you, a cow, a pig, a chicken, a horse, an elephant. And that should not be taken as an offense. You may find being called an animal offensive, but I find it a compliment. At least they don't commit mass murder.

Hey guys!
I'm a vegetarian no dairy myself but I was wondering about everyone's opinion on "culling" and the different 'cullings".
I don't really know what to think.
I'm very against shark culling.
However things like cane toad culling is where I get iffy.
I wish we could just catch all the cane toads and take them back to their old habitat.
This isn't a viable option, though and as such I'm undecided on the topic.

What's everyone elses thoughts on culling?

Hmm, great point! Yes like you I'm against shark culling but I haven't thought about the cane toad culling...one one hand they are still animals and deserve to live, but on the other hand they are literally bringing the entire ecosystem down. So I'm not sure.

[pi]

I'm for culling if there is a reason, eg. an imbalance in the ecosystem as is the case with cane toads, or culling the wild cats in the outback, etc.. Although the distinction probably doesn't need to be made, I'm not in favour of poaching.

Hmm, great point! Yes like you I'm against shark culling but I haven't thought about the cane toad culling...one one hand they are still animals and deserve to live, but on the other hand they are literally bringing the entire ecosystem down. So I'm not sure.

Honestly surprised you have a dilemma here hahaha By your previous posts, killing a cane toad would be akin to killing your neighbour? (see how ridiculous that analogy sounds now?)

[Deshouka]

"So the ~25% of people who are tolerant towards milk actually have mutated genes."
Tld;dr - drinking milk is not actually biologically natural!
"I see no difference between me, you, a cow, a pig, a chicken, a horse, an elephant. And that should not be taken as an offense. You may find being called an animal offensive, but I find it a compliment."
"Yes like you I'm against shark culling but I haven't thought about the cane toad culling...one one hand they are still animals and deserve to live, but on the other hand they are literally bringing the entire ecosystem down. So I'm not sure."

I'm sorry, but comments like these shows you how ignorant you are in Biology. No one's going to take you seriously if you make absurd statements like these.

[geminii]

"So the ~25% of people who are tolerant towards milk actually have mutated genes."
Tld;dr - drinking milk is not actually biologically natural!
"I see no difference between me, you, a cow, a pig, a chicken, a horse, an elephant. And that should not be taken as an offense. You may find being called an animal offensive, but I find it a compliment."
"Yes like you I'm against shark culling but I haven't thought about the cane toad culling...one one hand they are still animals and deserve to live, but on the other hand they are literally bringing the entire ecosystem down. So I'm not sure."

I'm sorry, but comments like these shows you how ignorant you are in Biology. No one's going to take you seriously if you make absurd statements like these.

The first one is true, for people after they have been weaned off human milk. The body stops producing lactase as it is not needed, but some lines of ancestry actually mutated and their lactase production continued. Due to this that smaller percentage of people can tolerate milk.
The second one is my opinion and cannot be said to be true or false.
The third one is also my opinion about weighing up the total damage to the ecosystem. Is it worth it or is it not? That is also a matter of opinion and cannot be said to be true or false.

I'm for culling if there is a reason, eg. an imbalance in the ecosystem as is the case with cane toads, or culling the wild cats in the outback, etc.. Although the distinction probably doesn't need to be made, I'm not in favour of poaching.

Honestly surprised you have a dilemma here hahaha By your previous posts, killing a cane toad would be akin to killing your neighbour? (see how ridiculous that analogy sounds now?)

We have to look at the whole picture - if we don't kill the cane toads, the entire ecosystem is at risk of falling. But on the other hand the cane toads still deserve to live. That's why I have the dilemma.